Amend the law to enable endend land transactions

Ali, actually, the lawyers were not disrupted, or were they?

Conveyancing and sell contracts will still remain as before. Maybe I’m
wrong.

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 10:20 PM Barrack Otieno via kictanet <
kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Hi Ali and learned colleagues,
>
> You know any public participation initiative on land related issues
> would end up like Bomas 1 when we were doing the new constitution.
> That said , there was and still is need for public participation, i
> hope the new CS Farida Karoney can breath fresh air at the Registry.
> Thank you Walu for the article.
>
>
> Regards
>
> On 4/12/18, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> wrote:
> > @Kanini and @Victor,
> >
> > The lawyers bold enough to come out fighting. @Rosemary, we are watching
> > you. We won’t allow you to all of a sudden become a lurker ?
> >
> > To your point Kanini – one of the biggest determinants of success or
> failure
> > of any Digital Transformation initiative is not the technology itself but
> > CULTURE. I fear this initiative is doomed to fail simply because it
> hasn’t
> > carried stakeholders along.
> >
> > I fear a lot of government initiatives will go this way if CULTURE is not
> > changed.
> >
> > Ali Hussein
> > Hussein & Associates
> > +254 0713 601113
> >
> > Twitter: @AliHKassim
> > Skype: abu-jomo
> > LinkedIn: ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> > Blog: www.alyhussein.com
> >
> > “Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
> what
> > no one else has thought”. ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On 12 Apr 2018, at 9:45 PM, kanini mutemi via kictanet
> >> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>
> >> We are here @Ali. Some of us don’t agree with LSK’s position. Yes public
> >> participation wasn’t carried out and that was the original sin. However,
> >> we should be fighting for a pause to consider public comment not bluntly
> >> asking to go back to the analogue system. We can’t be seen to be
> fighting
> >> digitization. But you understand why lawyers aren’t excited about some
> >> digital developments eg smart lawyer platforms ?
> >>
> >> That being said, it must be understood that this digitization doesn’t
> >> solve the inherent problems in conveyancing. Eg applying for a search,
> >> whether physically or online, doesn’t guarantee you that there isn’t a
> >> copycat file in the lands registry that could return misleading results.
> >> Again, we have said on this list before that technology is not a magic
> >> wand. Our land dishonesty problem won’t disappear because we’ve reduced
> >> the foot traffic at Ardhi House. Also, picking up lessons from
> e-citizen,
> >> company registration is online yes but you still need an ‘insider’ to
> help
> >> you use the platform sometimes because applications may take time or the
> >> platform returns error messages you wouldn’t be able to interpret on
> your
> >> own.
> >>
> >> Ps: The previous administration peddled digitisation of the lands
> registry
> >> too. Registries were closed severally to that effect. Perhaps there’s a
> >> procurement question here. Was that mere scanning of records? Who did
> it?
> >> Who is providing the services for the current process? How were they
> >> engaged?
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 at 21:30, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet
> >>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>> The lawyers are here. We have been otherwise occupied trying to figure
> >>> out how the new LMIS system works, in order to facilitate your
> >>> conveyancing transactions!
> >>>
> >>> I wonder why some people want to digitise wakili’s out of business,
> >>> surely. Jameni? Can’t we be left to ‘eat’ our legal fees in peace?
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I think this is a good initiative. Trust me all lawyers want
> >>> these land transactions to move quicker. Only that we need, for the
> >>> benefits of our clients, to ensure there is proper due diligence done
> to
> >>> ensure the integrity of land transactions. As you’re all probably
> aware,
> >>> land disputes form a huge chunk of cases in our courts – in fact there
> is
> >>> an entire court (ELC) dedicated to land matters. We facilitate the
> >>> conveyance process and do not as some suggest, act as obstacles to land
> >>> transactions. In fact, the faster we transact, the sooner we get paid –
> >>> so nobody wants delays. Delays are caused by inefficiency, corruption,
> >>> bureacracy and disorganisation in some of the registries. It is also
> >>> important to note that the property management framework is a very
> >>> complex regime and whereas technology can enhance such processes, there
> >>> are certain technicalities that require a legal mind to determine.
> >>>
> >>> That said, the challenge with this government project is that it was
> >>> conceptualised, designed and implemented – i believe in secret – and
> >>> without adequate participation of key stakeholders. How many people
> here
> >>> knew of the details of the land registry digitisation process until the
> >>> lands registry in Nairobi was closed to the public for the migration
> >>> process last month? If the process was more participatory, and there
> was
> >>> better communication and awareness, then i doubt we would be having the
> >>> issues being raised here or in the articles. As lawyers, we want
> change.
> >>> But the technocrats developing ICT systems for e-government need to be
> >>> more transparent about such projects. As we speak there is no programme
> >>> for training on using the system or a manual at best – save for a
> sketchy
> >>> 1 min. 29 sec. video and a paragraph with scanty instructions (see
> >>> screenshot). Jameni. We must strive to implement such projects better,
> if
> >>> the country has to get to where it needs to. The approaches to e-gov
> >>> programmes need to be more holistic, strategic and systematic to ensure
> >>> success. We deserve better, and we can do better.
> >>>
> >>> Ni hayo tu.
> >>>
> >>> Victor Kapiyo
> >>> Partner | Lawmark Partners LLP
> >>> Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, Commissioner for Oaths & Notary
> >>> Public
> >>> Suite No. 8, Centro House, Westlands, Nairobi | Web: www.lawmark.co.ke
> >>> ====================================================
> >>> “Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig
> >>> Ziglar
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 12 April 2018 at 18:05, Ali Hussein via kictanet
> >>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Where are the lawyers?
> >>>>
> >>>> Ukiwa upande huu utajitetee…Ukiwa upande ule… LOL
> >>>>
> >>>> Ali Hussein
> >>>> Principal
> >>>> AHK & Associates
> >>>>
> >>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
> >>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >>>> Skype: abu-jomo
> >>>> LinkedIn: ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>>>
> >>>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
> >>>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
> >>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
> purely
> >>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
> >>>> organizations that I work with.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet
> >>>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>>> @SMM,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am under ‘Siekke’ for the article 😉
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I received a message from one of the lawyers who promised me a ‘Class
> >>>>> Suit’. Am googling what that means and hope the digital lawyers
> onlist
> >>>>> will come to my aid 😉
> >>>>>
> >>>>> walu.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 4:30:44 PM GMT+3, S.M. Muraya via
> kictanet
> >>>>> <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Correction: Article is via @JWalu
> >>>>>
> >>>>> www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
> >>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
> >>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
> >>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the
> inevitable
> >>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> LSK argument for remaining analogue, being anti digital..
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> LSK cites section 34 of the Advocates Act which states: “No
> unqualified
> >>>>> person shall, either directly or indirectly, take instructions, draw
> or
> >>>>> prepare any document or instrument relating to the conveyancing of
> >>>>> property.”
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> www. businessdailyafrica.com/news/
> Ministry-switch-to-online-
> >>>>> land-registry-sparks-row-with- LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/ index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 3:55 PM, S.M. Muraya <
> murigi.muraya@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Noted well @walu
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
> >>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
> >>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the
> inevitable
> >>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
> >>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> —
> >>>>> SMM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> “Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than
> one
> >>>>> who takes a city.” Prov 16:32
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> >> —
> >> Mercy Mutemi, Advocate.
> >>
> >>
> >>
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>
> —
> Barrack O. Otieno
> +254721325277
> +254733206359
> Skype: barrack.otieno
> PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
>
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